Support for Deliberent Mainboards

[tdereggi]

I have to say the new Deliberent 533Mhz system hardware is a fantastic design, nice case, board, mounts, FCC, packaged ready to go. And well priced. It uses IPX425 and Compex Atheros also. It would be good hardware for STAROS! Has anyone loaded StarOS on it, and should it work OK?

[tony]

There is no StarV3 version for that specific platform. All embedded (non-x86) platforms need a special release.

If you are willing to donate one of the platforms in question, we can look into supporting it.

[tdereggi]

Why do all non-x86 need a special release? I am asking because...
Does that mean a special release is needed for each unique configuration of the manufacturer's board? The 266 version, the 2 port version, the 4 port version, etc? If that were the case wouldn;t that be a supper Pain for Valemount to manage? With the WARs, my understanding was the same version was OK for all the WAR models with the same processor. Is it just a matter of having support for CPU and Ethernet NIC drivers? Or is it more complicated than that? I can send you a 533 board, if thats all that is needed to proceed with this. But how quickly could support be added? These systems are on sale at DoubleRadius for only $500 loaded with 4- 23db cards, until the end of the month. Can it be done by then? I was thinking of buying like 50 of these for stock, if STAROS will work on them, but they are worthless if StarOS won't run on them. The advantage of buying these units as a complete system, is I can LEASE to cover the expense, where as buying dispersed parts to build a system requires cash for everything. Don't get me wrong, I love the ADI boards, but right now it requires buying everything (parts) seperate, which means cash/credit card purchases, and it adds up take a hit on Cash on Hand. Ligo's OS (wili-s) looks good on the surface, but its not practical to use yet in a carrier grade network on a 4 port system, due to things like, making ANY change, even a channel Freq, requires a FULL system reboot of ALL LINKS. Actually, Why don't I send you the Test Board, and in return, you comp me three StarOS Licenses in return (to run on that platform) to reimburse me for my board cost expendature :-)

[ripv]

tdereggi

just a thought -

can't you buy complete units from Valemount Networks?

533MHz Metro 24V 4-port Wireless Advanced Router

standard price with 4 x 23db cards is about $675 I think -
I'm sure Lonnie could do you a deal on 50 :p
(you could then avail of the lease option)

Personally I'd be prepared to pay more for the VN unit - after all it is
customised for VN and Star OS plus it comes with a lifetime free upgrade
license - not to mention you'd be supporting the guys who develop the OS
that has us all on this forum in the 1st place :)

[lonnie]

All non x86 require a customized firmware because there is no standard for memory and I/O addresses such as IBM created for the PC Architecture. The original WAR2 and WAR4 are not even the same, although the differences are minor enough that we had a single image able to use either one. Every platform we support is unique and requries a special firmware.

I have to apologize, but as you said, it is a pain to support new hardware. I have no idea what the demand for that particular board is and Deliberant has been fairly agressive at promoting WiliBox so we would not be able to create and support a new hardware for a total of 50 licenses.

DoubleRadius should have access to the Metro boards via Microcomm. Why not see if they can do the same deal for Metro's? It might be more money, but there is not a better board on the market. I'm aware of better boards coming but they are in the future. The ADI is here now.

[tony]

As Lonnie pointed out, each embedded platform requires quite a bit of planning and development to support.

Even though they may have the same processor, every platform has significantly different memory, flash, PCI, GPIO, etc... requirements.

The WAR-2 and WAR-4 share a common firmware download as the architectures is almost identical, however even with this, there is enough differences to require a unique bootrom (BIOS) for each one.

I believe the Deliberent systems are based on the Lanready WDR800. If this is the case, we may already have a 1.1.x firmware available for it.

If you post a picture of your system, we can get a better idea.

[tdereggi]

Lonnie,

> not for qty 50.

The idea was not for just qty 50. Qty 50 was what I was looking for as my initial order. The real volume would come from all the other 100s of WISPs that wanted to pay under $600 for a complete system ready to go out of the box w/ premium quality starOS. I do know how much time it takes to manage a seperate build, which is a pain, But what I didn't know was whether a seperate build was required. The Deliberent board seemed so close to the design of the ADI and WAR4, that I thought it might be able to be integrated into the support of one of the the existing builds. It probably isn't worth it, if it needs a seperately maintained build, as you infer. (I'm only experienced in X86 compilations, and did not know)

>Deliberant agressively marketing

They are agressively marketing their Wili-s OS, and it will likely improve. And there is the potential for conflict of interest. But the facts are, their hardware is hot, and their software is not, yet. Where the question lays is... What will happen first...
1) Third Party Software vendor makes better software for Deliberent
2) ADI lowers price, or integrator delivers lower cost system
3) StarOS Makes a Build for Deliberent
4) Or I pony up the additional cash for the current STAROS/ADI solution.
5) I just don't deploy, and give up on OEM systems for high volume.

> Why not Double Radius just sell Metro
Because DoubleRadius need consistent availablilty, and is in the business of Moving boxes ready to go, not building systems. Like WISP like me.

Let me clear up a misunderstanding...
The problem here is NOT ADI. They make a great board, and I know they can and will deliver better pricing for volume pruchases. The problem is who wants to be a true system integrator for WISPs in the US? Its like pulling teeth. The margins are low? It just doesn't make sense to have a US manufacturer ship to a Canada integrator, only to Ship it right back to the US, to fullfill a US sale. The problem and cost issue is packaging ready to go systems with consistent availabilty. We want certified systems not parts. Who's willing to do that cheap? Deliberant appears that they are. (Give WISPs what they want, and make it up in volume). The ADI boards themselves are well priced. Even Lonnie himself has said, "we don't carry the cases, because its just duplicate large shipping costs". Its the time it takes to source a PS, POE, Case, Mount, Radio Card, BAckplane, SBC, Pigtail seperately. In 2 years, I have never had one experience where one Vendor/distributor had had all parts in stock to complete the build of a system order. That is why I was embracing Deliberant product. Did I mention Deliberent is a TRUE FCC CERTIFIED SYSTEM! (Allthough that would be negated, after flashing third party STAROS software). But you still get the pretty FCC sticker on order!
This is BIG for faking a certified system. (Don't want 5.3G support disabled :-) If I were lonnie, I'd chose hassle free license revenue, anyday over tying up capitol moving boxes in volume, if it were an option.

With that said, I'm more than willing to embrace options from ANY vendor that is willing to FCC certify a specific hardware combination, and sell it to me cost effectively, to install a uncertified STAROS ver on, at a low cost.
And I can tell you that there is no one I'd rather support than Valemount and ADI.

>standard price with 4 x 23db cards is about $675

If thats the case, can someone tell me where? Can I buy it today?
(I require 5.3G-5.8G cards)

Not sure where you are getting that price. Valemount's store does not even include systems or cases. To make sure you heard right, the Ligowave systems for $529, were with Case, mount, 4 quality pigtails, POE, 48V-1amp PS, SBC, FCC sticker, qty 4- 23db 5.8G model cards, already built, w/ a shipping cost (next day) of $5. My qty 50 intent, was based on the huge savings to act now. (I admit just a temporary promotional price) Then add StarOS ($70) and got it for under $600.

If we talk low quantity (under 10, my typical volume), ADI quotes $600 just for SBC, Case, 48V PS barebone w/ no radios, OS, or Pigtails included. Approaching $950 complete system w/ quality parts and still no STAR OS software incl yet, almost double that of the Deliberant hardware promotion.

Disclaimer- I don't consider it unethical to discuss this competitors product on Valemounts site, as it is no threat to StarOS, as STAROS's unique features, allow it to stand as the prefered software solution for WISPs. Also, I do not consider this post to be unsupportive of ADI. I simply have orders to install today, and ADI is just not there quite yet, from a ready to go certified system.

[sligbot]

We've looked (and continue to look) at the possibility of building an FCC-approved, all-in-1, 4 port solution. The biggest issue is that everybody wants something a little different. Radios, antennas, heck, even POE. Even if you took 3 different combinations (I hate combinatorics so I'll probably screw this up) there are 27 different varieties (even though there are more than 3 types of antennas or manufacturers that you can use but this is an example).

Do you have any idea as to how much this would cost? The point is that what works for you in your specific circumstance will not work for someone else in theirs. Hence the need for different items that resellers sell and (at least for me as a reseller) the continued stocking issues of every type of solution that needs a special solution -- for pennies on the dollar. I'm not complaining about things, I'm simply trying to communicate what goes on in reality, which is what I think (correct me if I'm wrong) Lonnie might agree with.

If there's a consensus -- I mean way more than 50% of people -- that would agree upon a whole slew of items that would make the FCC-approval process worthwhile, I'm sure that we (or any other reseller/distributor, maybe even VNC) would consider proceeding through the process. But it's the scatter-fire approach that makes StarOS so powerful as a WISP tool which also tends to hand-cuff us.
I've rambled on long enough... :)
--Rich

[lonnie]

For the DIY market there will not be any concensus. Simply look at the posts on the Support Forums where I give the BEST advice possible for which equipment to use, yet people consistently ignore that when it comes time to buy something and they seem to purchase whatever is dangled in front of them at that particular time, especially if the price appears cheap.

The only answer I can see is for us to move to unique hardware and then using that hardware we will get a system built and certified. It will use our choices for cards and cases and antennas. We are not ready for that step yet, since we do not have the room to be storing the range of antennas we will require.

[tdereggi]

>FCC cert.

I agree with the comments that you made regarding challenges in what to certify. But it is important to understand where this FCC cert trend is comming from. Its not about feeling good about being legal. Its about protecting one's investment, and guaranteeing a supply chain for the network design/venture, or at least reducing risks. There is nothing worse for a WISP, than to build a network, and then 2 years and 1/4 million dollars later, someone says by the way, flush that investment down the toilet, you can't use that network anymore, its illegal. Thats what just happened to me with the new 5.3G rules and Trango. Therefore also reducing the valuation of ones network, for resale also. Physically having a Radio enclosure with a sticker, and base hardware that matches a picture on the FCC cert website, is 95% of the battle, to reduce risk of being caught for having an uncertified complete system. But the truth is, the FCC will not likely ever visit all your subscribers on private property to confirm CPE compliance, nor SSH into the software of a live unit to confirm authenticy of installed firmware. Whats more important is protecting the supply chain. Its VERY easy for the FCC to shut down or Fine a manufacturer or Distributor for selling an uncertified system. All a WISP really needs is a way to correct an uncertified system breach, and the only way that can occur is for the core radio system (case and insides, not necessarilly antennas) is to be certified. What product is certified is not that critical. Again, the reason I brought up Deliberent, is they had a FCC certified solution shippable today, that meets most WISPs needs for high end gear, so it could have been a solved problem. ADI also should have a FCC certified system very soon (They are partially certified today), which is also exciting, and why it was a good choice for Valemount to standardize on today. The truth is there is no one system that will meet all peoples needs, so a manufacturer certifying must make a decission based on what they think will fit the majority. But to answer your question, I will tell you exactly what is needed in a certified system package....

1.A SBC with 4 mpci slot, min 2 ethernet ports (ADI excellent choice)
2. A Solid Case, 8" x 10" x 3.5", NOT smaller (if ADI SBC used)(prefer that size case no matter what board used.
3. A common High Power Mpci radio that supports 2.4G,5.3G,5.8G imbeeded in one. (The Compex 54AGN-23db appears to be the current day ideal choice, balancing cost to performance. Ubiquiti also OK, We prefer Atheros, But ADI is standardizing on Senao. Its to hard to keep track of which freq will be needed for what sector when, orwhat power, so it is critical to be a high power card that supports all channels. This allows mass productiong, and flexibilty by isntaller.)
4. High Quality Pigtails, Preferably ALL 4 installed. (guaranteeing signal that engineered to get)
5. Mounting hardware that supports 2-3/8" mast.
6. POE that is solidly WALL Mountable (screw hole), and 1 greenlight for Pwr verification.

If the above is accomplished, it takes care of 95% of everyone's needs.
If you want to take it one step further, add some antennas... The most critical is a PacWireless 2ft, 29db Parabolic, ideal for 90% of PtP needs.
Include a CPE antenna, preferably one that is certified for 5.2G-5.8G range. Preferably 23db, but that includes mounting hardware standard for up to 2-3/8" pole. That is important. What a Commercial Urban WISP wants is a system that looks solid, durable, and professional.

Once the above is delivered... The person that will get the sale is who is willing to sell it, at the lowest margin, OR who has immediate availabilty of the complete product, as WISPs tend to both be impatient and price savy, its the nature of this business.

Note... FCC cert would require a software pre-loaded locked to FCC rules. But units must be reflashable, without loss of any paid licensing fees. (For example allowing the WISP option to flash 5.3Ghz support at their risk)

WISPs will rarely compromise on Software features they need, nor on Durability of equipment. (saving pennies results in losses of $100s). The desire to get lower price can only be fullfilled based on "because they can", savings from distribution efficiencies (volume, Shipping, cheap labor, etc).

Regards,

Tom DeReggi

[tdereggi]

Lonnie,

The answer is not for you to certify systems. (you are a software guy, and somewhat protected being outside of the US, for selling licenses online). The answer is to make software that can load onto already certified systems. Let someone else eat the cost, and go with who ever else is willing to make that dive. It has nothing to do with the many Hardware choices available or WISP's preferences, it has to do with availabilty of integrators willing to participate. To date, that list is not long. Lets look at OpenWRT for a second. They chose Linksys. Linksys is legal for every consumer to buy, and easy for them to flash the firmware on it. The success of OpenWRTG is due to the fact that they were smart enough to jump on the bandwagon of a Manufacturer that already produced high volume of certified gear. (not that Linksys is certified for WISPs, nor meets WISPs needs). Nobody cares about the complete certified system including antennas. ITs never going to be inforced, and WISPs generally are legal/responsible within Max EIRP. What we care about is efficiencies, and knowing our manufacturers will keep our gear that we need in stock and ready to go, because its risk-free for them to do so. WISPs need to get out of the business of assembling radios, it just doesn't scale.

I have about 700 radios in the field, and 40 licenses purchased for StarOS.
Why? Because the other 660 radios, were bought from vendors that had consistent availabilty in qtys as low as 5, and offered terms and/or financing, to make procuring easy, and delivered the features needed for my network design, that I could just take out of a box and install. Simply easy to conduct business. Many other WISPs are in the same position.

Whats exciting about StarOS and Valemount, is the product lines and channels are almost to the point where they can offer the same value proposition. STAROS is definately offering the needed features for success in a software. And Fast solid hardware is now available. Thus distributors and resellers are also starting to embrace the product as an opportunity. And now lastly, WISPs are to. Its almost there, getting close!

MAYBE if we are patient, we'll have it all with ADI products?

[tdereggi]

Tony,

(deliberent has several different board types)
But the 533M Board is the most relevent, Link...

http://www.deliberant.com/estore/web/pc-1188-8-dlb400-pcba-w-wili-s-pre-loaded.aspx (http://www.deliberant.com/estore/web/pc-1188-8-dlb400-pcba-w-wili-s-pre-loaded.aspx)

The FCCID on case is UB8-DLB5000M, but it does not show pictures of an Original system certification at FCC, just change for the mPCI card itself.

Unfortuntately, not a close up on the Board's chips.

Not Sure what a LAnReadyWDR800 looks like.

[lonnie]

Tom, it all sounds so simple. Here are some things for you to consider.

Whenever we sell hardware we simplify the process for the end user and our sales skyrocket, at least temporarily until people work to set up their own deals. We get used for proof of concept and prototype, but when the larger deals happen the manufacturer is only too eager to sell direct.

Our own custom product will cure that and people will have to build their own credibility.

[tdereggi]

Lonnie,

I'm sure you feel that way, but I disagree.
1) Your uniqueness is Software, Buyers can't go elsewhere for that.
2) People usually go Elsewhere for valid reasons, not to cut out the middle man.

Lets use my case as an example. I need Finance, Terms, Availabilty, Simplicity, Ease of Purchase. None of these things are currently provided by Valemount ideally. So I try and go elseware (direct and/or local distributor), even when it cost me > $100 more per unit going elsewhere, all costs considered. A good example is Electrocom, thought Availability and Terms would be solved (Got terms with them). Two months later... Still no WAR1 (empty or w/A cards) in stock, (they just got them w/ G cards, if I want to eat the extra $40 and through the G cards away when they arrive. Still No Metros in stock or on their carried product list, and if they did, it would not be mounted in a case ready to go. Once again, I need a product today, how quick can you get it to me, and at what cost. You can't at the right cost in shipping. Because you are not in the US. I had my tech in the office again drilling backplanes anfd mounting hardware, another $100 in labor lost. Where is that case on your web store that prevents me from having to do that? Your own custom product won't do you any good, unless you can solve the other problems.
The problems that are why Distribution exist to solve. I'm not saying that Valemount can't solve those problems, and fullfill those needs. They just aren't today, and that leads to loss sales, and people going elsewhere. Sales start happening, when buyers have the option to stop searching for the product they want, because someone finally can deliver it. But if you want to be in the hardware business, thats your perogative. Nothing wrong with that. I personally dedicated 5 years of my life to the hardware distribution business in a past life. Whats ironic is I always wished I was in the software business. I guess the grass is always greener on the other side. :-) Also, I find peopel are loyal buyers, it just differs what people are loyal to. For example, I'm most loyal to local suppliers, thats important to me.

PS. I confirmed and the new Ligowave 266Ghz 2 port Boards are the LanReady FN5-45PF Mainboards. Does your existing LanReady StarOS firmware work with that, as Tony suggested might?

I have not identified the Board maker for the 533Ghz 4 port systems. Originally I thought Deliberent actually made the boards, but it is appearing that they may buy them from someone else. I'm pretty sure their case is made by Compex.

[lonnie]

Tom, if you read your post closely you are saying that one reason you prefer to buy your stuff elsewhere is because you do not wish to put our gear in a case, then you say we should stay in software only. Doing it your way banishes to the fringes and our customers are the diehards who can and will use tools.

When we release a total product that issue is no longer a problem. I should also point out that several people have used our gear but arranged their own financing through a leasing company.

Our LanReady firmware might support that particular unit. It is the blue colored boards that we do have support for. The new series should be easy to get support for (if not already) and you can expect that soon, since we received the eval cards last week, but no time to even open the box. The problem for you will be to get our image loaded on since we have no idea how to move from WiliBox to StarOS except by jtag, and I suspect that since you do not want to use tools, that this step will be a deal killer.

It would seem easier to just get a board with our software.

An idea for Tom --> get Deliberant to use our Software as an option. We can support an after market software but all of Tom's issues are handled by this.

As for why people go elsewhere, there are many factors. The first is price, on two levels. For a large order, the manufacturer will usually offer them the same price they gave me, which is a savings that I cannot even begin to compete with. Second, if people can save $70 by using a free software that they can put their name on they will do it, even if they do not have the performance or reliability. The second is ego. They think it is easy to make their own OS and it gives a good feeling when it boots up and announces to the world they built it.

Most people who have tried the other systems say we are easier to use, higher performance and way more stable. If you look closely, you'll see that the big companies sell complete packages. I think that is all that has been holding us back. Some really inferior products have done really well because they are ready to plug in and go.

So, there you have it. Your entire system is almost non StarOS for a variety of reasons, even though you think we are the best. You will compromise the OS and hardware for one or more of: price, financing, ease of buying, and distribution. You are a normal consumer.

My products have always been available, just not from the people you buy from. Incidentally they started looking last Fall but never did anything. It is out of my control.

[tdereggi]

When I debate, sometimes I may come accross as inconsistent, but that is because I do not only argue for what I want, I also debate what might be better for the other party even if that is not best for me.

> When we release a total product that

I do not contest the benefit of offering a total product. You just have to be able to pull it off, and sometimes thats hard for smaller companies. Meaning sometimes better to do what you do well, than try and do it all. I persoanlly would enjoy being a total product provider myself, but I learned I can't do that and be a successful WISP. I actually really enjoy using tools, I just realize I'll be more profitable if I don't have to, when my suppliers in volume can use the tools more efficiently.

I wish you all the best in your veture to deliver a total product, and I'll probably be one of the first in line to check it out, when it comes.

>to move from WiliBox to StarOS except by jtag

I have nothing against JTAG. I just wasn't sure what it was last month or who supported it. I wasn't excited about rushing to buy $500 in JTAG licenses to support JTAGing 5 different Mainboards, before I knew if they were boards that would even be available for my purchase regularly, or that I'd ever have the need to Jtag something more than that once. NOt to mention it required shipping, when we were underdeadline to get it done right then. Plus the idea was... For someone to package a ADI board w/ StarOS already loaded and sold in a Kit w/ Case, so it would already be done! Why through money in the trash? Now I under what JTAG is, and understand that most Manufactuers support it on their boards. So I will be buying a JTAG device. It makes sense now, knowing I'm likely going to be flashing boards with various Firmware regularly.

>idea for Tom --> get Deliberant to use our Software as an option

What do you think I've been doing the last two weeks? You aren't the only one that I'm harassing :-) UNforteately, I'm power less, I have no say in what you (Valemount) does or What Deliberant does. All I can do is point out possibilties how things might fit togeather, to benefit everyone.

But it doesn't stop there. I'm working on many people... Why ADI needs to have a more cost effective case/mount. Why Ikarus should be making a Firmware for Ligo533s when you won't (not all links need OSPF and OLSR). Why, Electrocomm and DoubleRadius needs to be carrying StarOS, and not Just Mikrotik. Personally, I can't understand why the manufacturers haven't figured this all out yet. All WISPs want is a product that meets ALL their needs, Yesterday so they can compete today :-)

>big companies sell complete packages. I think that is all that has been holding us back.

Maybe. But you said it yourself, they give the Software FREE. That is how they achieve better Price. You are not in that position, giving away starOS, cuts your own throat. The only way to compete is build better software, and build better relationships. I'd love to see StarOS partner with a major SYSTEM provider again. Where the economy of scale they offered could translate to lower cost STAROS, and more revenue for Valemount. Thats were I was hoping to See the relationship with ADI go.
It doesn;t make sense for you to resell ADI, that relationships increases your csots to scale. What I'd like to see happen is ADI standardize on and resell STAROS. And ADI build a solid supply chain, that Electrocoms and DoubleRadius's can relay on, to carry the product. The only thin preventing it from happening, is ADI does not have the right case yet :-)

>My products have always been available, just not from the people you >buy from.

Software... Always. High end Boards w/ 5.xG... sporatic, low end boards w/ 2.4G... very often.

But the boards don't do any good without a good case.
Who did you say is stocking ADI ready Cases, at the right price, low volumes, 2-3/8" Pole mountable, that look professional?... Not.

Maybe I just need to be patient, and this will all come.

[Microcom]

[quote=tdereggi;46842]Lonnie,

A good example is Electrocom, thought Availability and Terms would be solved (Got terms with them). Two months later... Still no WAR1 (empty or w/A cards) in stock, (they just got them w/ G cards, if I want to eat the extra $40 and through the G cards away when they arrive. Still No Metros in stock or on their carried product list...

Hi Tom-
Please check again with Electro-Comm. They are in the process of listing additional Valemount products and should have the ability to ship WAR1-CPE and WAR4-24-METRO within 24-48 hours.
Best regards
Microcom Sales Team

[tdereggi]

Microcom,

> Check back with Electrocom, they should have

That's good to hear, and I will. Thanks.

I'll also add, that I in no way hold Valemount responsible for distributor's shortages. But when there are stock shortages, it is usually left up to Buyers' immaginations, to think of possible reasons why. With companies like Electrocom, it can be assumed its not likely financial, and with other vendors carrying the products, its not likely manufacturer shortage. Which can appear as doubt in market potential of product, legality, profit potential, or whatever missing component. As a buyer, whose business will rely on proprietary features of a product, we want to be assured that our suppliers are excited about the longevity of carrying a product, as we are.

[Mark]

Tom, I'm stuck in this mess, too. Every time I think I can standardize on something, the distributors mess me over.

For instance... Wlanparts doesn't sell War-2's at all. And, they don't sell a 24V wall wart. So, to order from them, you have to pay at 5-7 a unit more for power supplies. I'd prefer to just get 24V wall warts, since everything will run on them except for the WRAP's.

Everyone wants to sell the "cpe" version. This comes with the compex 2.4 g only radio. Useless to me. Most customers installed lately are 5 gig.

BuyWispGear stopped selling bare war1's.

Triple-play sells the War 2 and War 1 boards, AND they sell the wall warts. But they charge $16 ea more than market price for the WLM54 AG super 23 DBM radios. And $5 extra for CM9's above market price. Not a big deal for the CM9's, but intolerable for the WLM54AG's.

And I won't buy the tiny little black or gray pigtails, so I still have to buy somewhere else to get pigtails.

Triple Play takes a week or more to get me every order, so if I need anything in a hurry, it has to come from Wlanparts. Wlanparts doesn't sell the compex high power radios at all. They sell engenious high power radios (I want a 100 mw 11a radio), which work fine, but I was trying to standardize on specific radio models, so I could eventually certify these things. I REALLY do not want the engenious high power radios in 2.4G, since they are wayy to high of power. I tried just one. Yikes.

So, I have ended up buying hodge-podge. I buy my radios and pigtails and injectors from someone who refuses to have anyhthing to do with STar-OS, but is a great vendor otherwise.

But you make a valid point... If ADI and/or Compex would put Star-OS on the board and sell it that way, they could spread the cost of FCC cert far and wide and we'd all win. With certified board / radio combos, then assemblers would have no or few issues getting FCC stickered. Compex makes the radios and boards, and for them, certs would be trivial. They already do certify stuff.

I'd settle for WLM54AGSuper 23 dbm radios on everything, but prefer cm9's for 2.4 and the higher power radios for 5 gig.

But when Valemount ties software to specific hardware and instists on handling that hardware, Valemount can't certify the combinations we'd use easily, because they don't know what we want. And, since they build neither boards nor radios, they have no control over non-compliant emissions, which means that systems will probably end up highly limited for antenna / case choices.

SOMEONE who can spread the cost around, needs to be motivated to do the certification. It would be far more likely that the manufacturer of the boards (who often has the labs and has done the work already ) to get the FCC cert. Seems we should be able to get Wistron NewWeb, Compex, and engenius to certify their radios with the FCC. Ubiquiti already does. However, UBNT only certifies their SR9's with a 7 (yes, 7...ugh) db antenna.

If the radios, as Lonnie has said, can be limited internally to refuse to turn the power up above their certified or design limits, then FCC certification could be done for any of them and the software only need assure that incorrect channels cannot be chosen.

However, The distribution system now leaves us with hodge-podge and myriad duplicate certification efforts. This has stymied efforts for quite some time now.

The FCC has recently offered to certify individual components, which can help, but our current method of procurement places the users at the tips of the leaf of the tree, each wanting certification, but the roots and branches having either no means, or no motivation to certify the stream of parts from the sources.

BTW, until the hardware makers become the distributors of the firmware, they literally cannot certify anything, except as a favor, or on a paid basis, which is why certification of WISP assembled gear is so elusive.