Rugged laptops testers with Star-OS

[David L. Vrablic]

Survey gear revisited:
I took another look up on Ebay at the itronix mil spec laptops.
Back in the V2 only days, I picked up several 300 Mhz machines to use as field testers for $250 each and found that that Star was trying to validate the license key before it activated the PCMCIA card that it was keyed to.
They do not have a nic port.
I couldn't get a copy that I could save settings on the DOM.
So here they sit.
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They now have available the newer 1.7 Ghz machines for $800 and there is in internal slot for a mini PCI radio and a NIC port but still 800 isn't any small ammount to test with when you can buy a couple of WARs for that price.
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I seem to remember that someone posted that something about the internal licensing program had changed and more things were possible with V3.
Or in this case XT version of V3.
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The older 300 models are comming down to 100 bucks or less and looking better all the time.
Is there any way we can get them to work.?
Can anyone shed some light on this subject ?
It sure would be a great tool for doing site surveys.

Tony, Lonnie ??

[lonnie]

We do not support PCMCIA with V3 and v2 will still require a license before it loads PCMCIA services.

You could always get a $100 laptop, run Windows 3.11 with PCMCIA Ethernet and talk to a 2 port WAR board with a CM9 and have the ultimate site survey rig. Get a small 6 to 8 AHr battery and it all would be a nice package.

[Beebe]

It's not really the ultimate survey rig because you have to tote too much stuff up the ladder. A laptop with an antenna glued to the back of the screen is perfect, it has the battery built in (no need to keep two batteries charged all the time). Easy to climb ladders with.

If your job is largely doing surveys as mine will be for the next few weeks it makes a big difference if there's only one thing to carry onto the roof with, and one thing to plug back into the charger when you get done.

I'm thinking about just using a WAR board in a rootenna without a laptop and watching the flashy light to do surveys with. But then I have to find a 24v battery pack and figure out a way to keep it charged in my truck. I'd also need to log into the board every time I want to check the signal from a different tower.

Maybe there are some laptops which will already run v3 with mini-pci cards? I tried on a Gateway Solo 1200. V2 works on it, but when I tried v3 it said something about it being not bootable. I'm going to try it with a flash disk in it and see if it makes a difference.

Thanks,
Roger

[oscarBravo]

But then I have to find a 24v battery pack and figure out a way to keep it charged in my truck. WAR2s work perfectly at 12v with reasonable cable runs.

[tog]

Maybe I haven't been following closely enough, but is there any problem with just toting the pole/rootenna (with WAR inside) with a cable run coming down to the ground and having the laptop logged in via the LAN ethernet side?

You aren't trying to run around on roofs by yourself are you? Surveys should have at least two people for safety reasons. One holds up the mast, one with the laptop sees what's going on tells the pole-holder where to point it. This way there should always be at least 1/2 of the 2-person crew still able to call 911.

[Beebe]

I'm a one man business so far... Usually there's a customer there in case I fall off a roof or something.

I think I've got kind of a solution. I've got a couple of RC Car batteries, 7.2v each. They'll give 14.4 volts in series. they each came with a charger, so I can charge both up at once from the inverter in my truck.

Should last a lot longer than 3 pp3 batteries. I can either take my laptop up with me with an ethernet cable, or I can preconfigure the board and just take the roo up and watch the pretty flashy lights. Now to start soldering :)

Thanks,
Roger

[Magician]

I have a go-book. I love it for all my work. I have the intergrated gps and have yanked the intel pro wireless and installed a cm9. I have used it in heavy rain and snow. When I have to work on my leased towers I will clip the laptop to my belt and take to up 300' and clip it to the tower and plug into the ether2 on wars. The battery life is great on the unit and the touch screen works well.

[go.fast]

Roof top site surveys for me aren't that difficult.

Usually I just climb on the roof and look and see if I can see the tower/antenna I'm going to hit. If I can see it, it's done. And I really only climb on the roof it the potential sub is very serious and gonna have me install them right away, if I can.

I've tried holding the antenna with one hand and trying to hold the laptop with the other and it doesn't work too well for me. I'm not that co-ordinated.

If it's a non line of site type install where you know there's an ap not too far away that I probably can hit with good results, then I drag a tripod I keep in my van, hang a rootenna and drop a long cable I have down to my truck where I have 120 volts and can be comfortable.

Most of the time there's two of us, so one turns and the other reads, and other times, if the sub is around and wanting to be helpful, I get them to read me off the numbers and I turn. Otherwise it's a couple extra trips up the ladder.

Sometimes I take just my laptop up and see what it sees and what it connects at.

If I'm getting 2 bars on my laptop, I'm pretty certain more gain will get me a good connection. But for the most part, I know before I get on a roof or even drive to the location what I'm up against or if it's a slam dunk.

On the laptop note, why not just use a cm9 in your laptop and connect an antenna to it, maybe velcro a superpass panel to the back of the lid?

Could just use an older laptop just for this, rather than mess with your work book.

[ninedd]

I think I've got kind of a solution. I've got a couple of RC Car batteries, 7.2v each. They'll give 14.4 volts in series. they each came with a charger, so I can charge both up at once from the inverter in my truck.I use an 18v battery from my Drill. That way I don't have to have different batteries / chargers to keep track of. I simply took a secondary charger, cut the AC Adapter part off, and when I dock the battery, the leads are now carrying the + - back out.

However, I do like the idea of having cells inside a WarTenna. That'd be neater for sure.

[DrLove73]

You can also use older lap-top, and use USB Ethernet NIC for licensing with v2.

I've inherited Toshiba 4010CDS with 2 PCMCIA slots (Intel Prism 2.5 200 mW, b only), and USB slot. Problem was licensing it with v2, so it waited for couple of months.

Then, one day, when I was installing v2 PC x86, I inserted USB Ethernet NIC in PC, and booted Star-OS. I was pleasantly surprised when I it showed as NIC that can be used for licensing v2. You can transfer it in ANY PC/lap-top you like, an v2 will be fully functional.

[David L. Vrablic]

I am looking for a raw copy of the 2.11.0 build 4759 to load on a PC.
I believe that was the last one before the crossover version.

Here is what I am up to just in case someone else wants to do the same.
I have been trying to get a couple of itronix rugged laptops to do all the tricks I need for testing.

I had a major breakthrough tonight.
I took one of the XC 6250 PRO units (<$200 on ebay) and removed the internal modem card and replaced it with a CM-9. I am going to hook one antenna port to the flip up antenna and the other to a bulkhead connector on the rear of the unit to use with external antennas. (Best of both worlds.)

I removed the HD and replaced it with a CF adapter.
Right now I have strr2.10.0-build 4693 installed and it boots great and sees the CM-9 just fine. Also the two PCMCIA slots work giving a total of 3 radios to work with. The mouse "puck" even works.
(Of course the touch screen is dead but that is a small price)

I would like to get the newest version that I can loaded, seeing as though it will never get any better.

The Physdiskwrite program is teriffic for this type of thing.
It worked great.
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I did try version 3 but it gets as far as the boot loader and resets.
No ammount of tinkering would let it load .
As the internal card was detected before it looks for the license key I think I can get away with tieing the key to the mac of the CM-9.

I know this isn't recommended but I am making an appliance.
I really don't care that the unit doesn't have a nic port for what I want to do with it. I can always put a PCI radio in it and relay off a building top and putty in from my truck or remote location.
This is going to be great, I even have the vehicle mount for my other truck to do drive testing with.

Testing with the real thing is going to be a great help.
Oh yes I am making a pair of them so I can set up a real world path test in a flash.
Ah life is getting better.!

Sub zero tonight and the into the weekend burrrrr!

EUREKA!
I just bought a license key and it picked up Wpci1 (The internal mini CM-9) .
I now have a super rugged tester to carry on rooftops that will get er done!

[Mark]

I am looking for a raw copy of the 2.11.0 build 4759 to load on a PC.
I believe that was the last one before the crossover version.

Here is what I am up to just in case someone else wants to do the same.
I have been trying to get a couple of itronix rugged laptops to do all the tricks I need for testing.

I had a major breakthrough tonight.
I took one of the XC 6250 PRO units (<$200 on ebay) and removed the internal modem card and replaced it with a CM-9. I am going to hook one antenna port to the flip up antenna and the other to a bulkhead connector on the rear of the unit to use with external antennas. (Best of both worlds.)

I removed the HD and replaced it with a CF adapter.
Right now I have strr2.10.0-build 4693 installed and it boots great and sees the CM-9 just fine. Also the two PCMCIA slots work giving a total of 3 radios to work with. The mouse "puck" even works.
(Of course the touch screen is dead but that is a small price)

I would like to get the newest version that I can loaded, seeing as though it will never get any better.

The Physdiskwrite program is teriffic for this type of thing.
It worked great.
-----------
I did try version 3 but it gets as far as the boot loader and resets.
No ammount of tinkering would let it load .
As the internal card was detected before it looks for the license key I think I can get away with tieing the key to the mac of the CM-9.

I know this isn't recommended but I am making an appliance.
I really don't care that the unit doesn't have a nic port for what I want to do with it. I can always put a PCI radio in it and relay off a building top and putty in from my truck or remote location.
This is going to be great, I even have the vehicle mount for my other truck to do drive testing with.

Testing with the real thing is going to be a great help.
Oh yes I am making a pair of them so I can set up a real world path test in a flash.
Ah life is getting better.!

Sub zero tonight and the into the weekend burrrrr!

EUREKA!
I just bought a license key and it picked up Wpci1 (The internal mini CM-9) .
I now have a super rugged tester to carry on rooftops that will get er done!


I have a 6250 non-pro (266 mhz) and I have had it apart, but I did not find any mini-pci slots... where is that slot? I wanted to use it as you did, but I found that the processor was just too slow for netstumbler.

Mark

[David L. Vrablic]

Hi Mark,

I set up a 266 PRO with a CF HD adapter and loaded a V2 version on it.
I could only use prism or Hermes cards in PCMCIA slots.
Also I couldn't license it because the program checks for a key before it loads the PCI slot drivers.
It does run in test mod.
It is better than nothing especially for a temp test AP.
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After I waited a year sputtering I found that the XC PROs were being sold on EBAY for < 200 each.
They are built totally different, they use SO DIM memory and have a mini pci slot used for the modem.
I bought 2 of them.
I pulled the modems and tried a CM-9 and it was detected.
"The game was afoot" I couldn't get V3 to boot past the preloader but I was able to get the latest V2 versions to load and run as it should.
I licensed both units against the CM-9 MAC's.
I cut a hole in the back housing and mounted a "N" F bulkhead so all I need is a hunk of "Ultraflex" and the proper test antenna.
Now I can set one as an AP and the other as a client in survey mode and test a path of 2.4 or even 5.x with STAR-OS end to end.
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I also picked up one of the GO Books for $290 and put a Ubiquity PCMCIA cards in it with a pigtail and a SMA bulkhead mounted in the slot door.
These are 850 Mhz with XP PRO and loaded with WLAN MON, Net Stumbler and the ATHEROS utility.
With these three units I can do it all.
Now I am waiting for WI SPY to come out with the 5.x version and the 2.4 with an external antenna for spectrum viewing.

[Mark]

Huh, I had always thought the 6250 Pro was just a different processor and it was really the same inside.

Guess not.

I have an IX250 (celeron 850) now and I was sorely disappointed to find it had only pcmcia slots and one mini-pci that was a modem / ethernet combo card. Without that modem in place, I can't have ethernet built in. Ugh. The screen is only so-so in bright daylight, too. Nothing like a Transflective display would be.

Currently, that laptop runs DSL (damn small linux) on a 512M cf. Only one of the pcmcia slots is detected by DSL, and it's NOT the one where you can hide the card under the door. Mine has a pigtail that'll fit a Senao prism card built in and going to the antenna mounted on the display. It has 512 M of ram and even with the GUI loaded, it consumes under 25M of the 512M of ram available. Start up some applications and it goes up, but as of yet, I have never managed to use more than 150M of the 512 you can put in the IX250.

Windows might work, so I downloaded the trial version of XP embedded (the developer kit) and am waiting the arrival of a 4 gig CF to install it on. Hopefully XP embedded (based on xp pro) has the right drivers to run, and I manage to cobble together a working build of it.

XP embedded has EWF (enchanced write filter) which prevents wearing out the CF card with windows penchant for c onstantly writing to the hard drive.

If I can manage to build a working version, I'll buy the XP embedded license and build versions for others to try the same thing. I'm hoping to build the XP-E stripped down enough to need under 300M of space.

A hard drive consumes about 4W, and a CF is at WORST .1W. Not to mention seek times in the NS range and sustained UDMA transfer speeds up to 22.5MB/sec. Some industrial CF cards are rated for 10's of millions of R/W cycles, which is a 10 to 50 times improvement on the first CF cards.

[David L. Vrablic]

I don't understand just what your goal is for what you are building.

1. I wanted something inexpensive That would run Star w/ Atheros that was portable and rugged to set up a temp Star OS AP-Client link to test a path before building it for real.I start using them tomorrow.
One unit on a school in AP mode the other on a high rise in client mode.
Totally portable.

2. Also I wanted to be able to grab a unit and an antenna and attach to an existing AP in the system to qualify a location for install.

3. I needed a general survey tool with a NIC port that I could use for everything else. The Go Book with XP Pro does all that.
I did open up a PCI card and lead it with a soldered in pigtail.
It works in either slot and I can even close the door
I found far more tools for windows than I did for NIX so I went with XP.
Works for me. Good luck on your project.

[go.fast]

Dave, are you dual booting your laptop to run Star and XP?

[David L. Vrablic]

Dave, are you dual booting your laptop to run Star and XP?

Nope! The STAR-OS V2 runs on a pair of itronix XC6250 300 Pro units.
Cart them away appliances!
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The 850 Go Book is running plain vanilla XP Pro with an Atheros card in the PCI slot. (External antenna) off the shelf wifi testers.

I want to look into dual boot next , that would be cool.

[go.fast]

Too bad you couldn't find a tablet , then you could just use velcro to secure a panel to the backside and use it like a camera!

Point and Click!

George

[Mark]

I don't understand just what your goal is for what you are building.



Goal 1: long battery life general purpose laptop
goal 2: Durability - survives getting knocked around while travelling
goal 3: Convenient site surveys
goal 4: To be unique :)

The flash instead of hard drive cuts down on the power consumption, while speeding up the machine.

XP embedded is just for kicks and giggles. It's XP Pro, made modular, so you can choose what to put in. Cuts down on the size and excess junk installed - Oh, and runs on the flash without wearing it out.

I should be able to let the machine stay in hibernate most of the time and have it boot back up in just moments.

Most any program for windows will install and run on it, most any drivers for windows will work, too.

The install for XP embedded I believe will be ~500 megs, leaving about 3 gig free for whatever I need installed and operating on that computer. Open Office, netstumbler, INMS, putty, and a few other interesting things.

[David L. Vrablic]

OK! Now I get it.
I am playing by building test equipment that meets my needs and you are inventing an improved apple! In a millitary configuration.:)
Have gobs of fun!
Tony just told me the .co firmware is the "caboose version".

[cephlon]

I bought 4 used Dell Latitude LS laptops on ebay for $200, minus battery and harddrive. They are only 333mhz, but very small and light. I bought the battery, charger and hard drive seperate. I don't really worry about harming the laptop since I have 3 laptops worth of parts to swap. I had a screen die on me after getting caught on the roof in the rain. Just swapped out the hard drive and battery to the next laptop.

I put in a Ubiquti card and attached an N-Female. I use a 15 dbi Grid antenna which is easy to carry. I stick the laptop in my backpack, hop up on the roof and take the reading with netstumbler. Even my cloaked APs have non-cloaked APs next to them so if I have a good signal on the non-cloaked I know I'll hit the cloaked AP.

The only think I have to figure out now is the best way to do 900 mhz surveys.