Network design

[lonnie]

Here are some crude diagrams that will be refined. Please comment and feel free to add to this thread for proper design techniques.

http://www.staros.com/images/coax.jpg
http://www.staros.com/images/cat5.jpg
http://www.staros.com/images/80211.jpg

[Beebe]

If I have a StarOS AP and I assign a /30 for each customer and that's bad design because?

I mean I'm mainly interested in how the client talks to the access point, and the client is on the same subnet as the AP so it'll work great, right? Or is it a problem because the access point can't talk to several clients as efficiently if they are all on different subnets?

I can understand how it's less efficient if client A wants to communicate with client B, but that's the minority of cases in a WISP environment, and in this case I WANT it to go through the router so that it is throttled, and doesn't completely tie up the AP.

Am I understanding correctly?

Thanks,
Roger

[Skaught]

Can you please contact ARIN have them change IP allocation policy worldwide as they really "ought to know better".

Obviously you have an agenda here and don't seem to care if it is opposite to worldwide Internet policy.

Every other access technology uses private IPs for the CPE and public ones for the client.

I am not going to argue this any further as this is pure opinion on your part and this will certainly take on shades of a religious debate.

[lonnie]

Yes, the AP and client are OK, because they have the same subnet, and thus will use ARP to talk with each other, but IP to send to others. The AP will use ARP to them all, and that is most efficent.

If I have a StarOS AP and I assign a /30 for each customer and that's bad design because?

I mean I'm mainly interested in how the client talks to the access point, and the client is on the same subnet as the AP so it'll work great, right? Or is it a problem because the access point can't talk to several clients as efficiently if they are all on different subnets?

I can understand how it's less efficient if client A wants to communicate with client B, but that's the minority of cases in a WISP environment, and in this case I WANT it to go through the router so that it is throttled, and doesn't completely tie up the AP.

Am I understanding correctly?

Thanks,
Roger

[lonnie]

I think you misunderstand, unless you are building huge, flat address space networks. There is no reason to have huge networks with the same mask or broadcast segment. It is not all that wasteful to subnet a /24 into 32 or 64 IP subnets (/26 or /27).

My agenda, as you put it, is to start some dialog and provide some background to show why things work the way they do. I bet most WISP's do not understand ARP and have no idea where it came from or why it is required. You would not believe the number of systems I see that have a whole bunch of logical subnets on a single physical segment. Some guys even try and build systems with routing bridges and get disgusted when they have trouble.

I'm not sure why you think this is contrary to worldwide internet policy. Maybe explain how anything I have ever said or written is contrary to solid network design.

Can you please contact ARIN have them change IP allocation policy worldwide as they really "ought to know better".

Obviously you have an agenda here and don't seem to care if it is opposite to worldwide Internet policy.

Every other access technology uses private IPs for the CPE and public ones for the client.

I am not going to argue this any further as this is pure opinion on your part and this will certainly take on shades of a religious debate.

[ninedd]

Hey, I for one would love this disussion to continue. :) There are lots of good articles on routing, but really nothing that explains "the ideal way to setup a StarOS routed network with centralized Radius authentication and bandwidth control", so this duscussion would be great AFAIC.

It sounds to me like you two may have a missunderstanding. I'm sure that Lonnie wasn't talking about assigning each client 4 public IP's for their own private subnet - you are probably right ARIN would have a cow (or at least wouldn't give you another /24) if you only connected 60 clients to the first 255 addresses. :)

However, if you assign 32 public IP's to an AP card, and connect 30 clients to it, that satisfies both of you I think, and I think that's really what you are both talking about, isnt' it?

[lonnie]

Right. My problem is the guy who has a /24 or larger and uses that assignment as one big old flat IP space. Split the subnet into smaller subnets and use them at the edges and route. That is what ARIN has in mind and is the way the Internet was designed.

I propose central radius but distributed control for authentication and bandwidth control at the edge.

We use private IP space for all inside or backbone IP's. Some AP's get private subnets with small public subnets routed to customers who truly require them.

[lonnie]

The first IP of any subnet is the network IP and the last IP is the broadcast IP, thus every subnet loses two IP's.

If you have a /24 it means that you have 256 IP addresses, thus 254 are usable. The netmask is 255.255.255.0

You can only split a subnet in half. Thus a /24 becomes 2 subnets of 128 IP's or /25 with netmasks of 255.255.255.128. The last number is 256 - size of the subnet.

Each of those /25 can be split into /26 with 64 IP addresses. The netmask is 255.255.255.192 (256-64=192).

Get the general idea? And most of you guys thought this was rocket science, whereas it is so simple. The hard part is if you do not do this right from the beginning.

You see, if you begin as a flat /24 then every machine has an IP and a netmask of 255.255.255.0, so that if you ever wish to change it you must visit each and every machine and assign a new netmask and gateway. If you wait too long it gets to be a lot of work. Imagine having to visit 200 customers and change their netmask and gateway, and possibly their IP if the are using a network or broadcast IP in the new subnet. If you do it properly at the start you will not have to be visiting customers and manually changing their settings. You choose --> do it properly, once, or do it over once you hit trouble.

If you at least use DHCP, then you can renumber everybody from the comfort of your office and it is much easier. Most guys that are in a hurry to get going don't do that though and they just start connecting customers and assigning IP space. The most organized of these guys at least record what they assign, but many do not.

The best thing is to get some books and read them (check the Library thread). Guys, we are in the network business. How can we not know what ARP does and how can we not even know how to subnet? Imagine an automotive mechanic who has no concept of how the combustion engine works. First of all it would not be allowed since they are required to be trained and licensed. They do that to protect the public from clowns who can BS and are very charming but never learn anything.

The thing I find amazing is that there are guys who have been doing this for almost as long as I have and they do not know their ARP from a hole in the ground and cannot route or subnet to save their souls. It is sad really. I know that some of these guys have billed themselves out as high priced consultants. Imagine getting someone on a huge hourly rate that really does not know much more than you do, and actually advises you to make all the stupid mistakes because that is all they know?

For this reason you cannot be hiring people to do the simple things that you really ought to know.

Well, there it is. That is my agenda. You guys have to learn these things and you have to build networks that can scale. Avoid redoing it and above all avoid going out of business because you cannot compete with the guy who knows his stuff.

[ninedd]

I agree totally. We had a flat wireless network for years, and frankly, when it worked, it worked well. But that was 3 AP's and 5 clients on each. When we got to 7 AP's machines, some with 3 AP sectors, and 20+ clients on each... it just started to crunch. We switched to static routing and it is far better and can scale as large as we need. Before, I was always worried... is this the CPE that will make it crash? Is this the last AP I'll be able to add? Now, I can scale as large as I need, because after all, the whole outside internet is routed and it's HUGE. :)

If you at least use DHCP, then you can renumber everybody from the comfort of your office and it is much easier.The problem we have with DHCP has been being able to diagnose customer issues. If we know from our written list that Joe's Radio's IP should be 10.1.1.106, and he calls and says he can't get any internet, we simply ping 10.1.1.106 and we know if his radio is there. With DHCP, how do we know who'll get what IP when?

On a related note... I know that the Tranzeo CPQ's have been getting mixed results, but they have a built in Router/DHCP and that's been really nice. The customers internal computer(s) can simply DHCP from the radio's Ethernet, and the Radio can be a single static (private) IP from our AP's and it all works really well - as long as the AP & CPE want to talk to each other that is.

[lonnie]

We have always had support for static DHCP assignment. In fact we support TWO mechanisms. The large ISC DHCP server allows you to mix dynamic and static assignments. The smaller DHCP AutoAuth has static assignment by asking a Radius Server. Our stock ISC DHCP script even has examples of dynamic and static assignments.

You have to take the time to understand the basics of the software capabilities or you are forever under the assumption that you have no idea what IP a customer is on if you use DHCP. Nothing could be farther from the truth and you are seriously hurting your designs by not knowing that DHCP can do static assignment and allows you to change and control things at will.

By not taking a few hours in the beginning to learn about your profession and the tools available, you will be forever doing it the hard way. If you look at the time and trouble it will cost you because of not using DHCP you are way over the few hours of reading it would have been in the beginning. WAY OVER. Once again, a rush to get going will cause nothing but trouble later on.

[ninedd]

Lonnie.

1) On the 'large' SERVICES -> DHCP SERVER, is there any way to control a range of IP's handed out for each AP card? In other words, if we have an SOS Machine with 3 sectors, it would seem that this DHCP server will hand out the same IP range to clients connecting on any sector.

2) On the DHCP AutoAuth, can I mix Static numbers for the CPE Radios, and Dynamic for the customer's computer(s).

[lonnie]

First off, for proper network design you would have each AP on its own subnet, so the answer is simple: yes, it hands out a unique range for each sector.

On DHCP AutoAuto you simply have dynamic ranges for any user that does not get an IP assigned by radius. You decide which ones get static assignment by the entry in the radius database. If there is no radius entry then it gets dynamic.

[ninedd]

Please comment and feel free to add to this thread for proper design techniquesLonnie, you seem to want discussion on network design, and I'm just trying to do my part and participate in this discussion. Frankly, MANY people read these forums hoping to learn stuff, but they don't want to ever ask a question because they'll get jumped on for not already knowing what they are asking.
You have to take the time to understand the basics of the software capabilitiesThat's what we're doing here... that's why we discuss these things...

By not taking a few hours in the beginning to learn about your profession and the tools available, you will be forever doing it the hard way.Yes, that's why people read and ask question here. To try and learn the right way to do thing...

Once again, a rush to get going will cause nothing but trouble later on.Umm. Actually, not in a rush. I've ran a BBS since 1981, which grew into an ISP, and I've been doing wireless since before 802.11 (and way before 802.11b), so our network started well before we had StarOS. Actually, I love to read and understand everything I can. That's why I'm participating in the discussion about proper network design that you started. I think it's a very valuable discussion. (Gosh, I think I may have even said that earlier in the thread???)

So, AGAIN, I agree with you - doing it wrong will cause problems later on. I KNOW THIS BECAUSE OUR NETWORK USED TO BE FLAT. I think I have valuable insight to offer, partly because my wireless network used to be as wrong as possible, and I'm now doing it 100 times more correctly. As I'm correcting things, I'm trying to participate in the forums and post the questions and answers in a method that I think others that are still doing it wrong can identify with. If you'd like me to shut up and not try to participate, that's fine, but frankly, I think that I (and many others) have valuable questions to ask and what we're looking for is discussion and answers, not ridicule.

If you'd prefer to start a thread with the line 'feel free to add to this thread' but if you don't actually want people to 'add to the thread', then just say so and we'll all go back to reading the out of date, difficult to understand manual and scratching our heads and then doing it wrong.

[ninedd]

First off, for proper network design you would have each AP on its own subnet, so the answer is simple: yes, it hands out a unique range for each sector.So, what you're saying is that if I have 3 AP Cards that are 192.168.4.x, 192.168.5.x and 192.168.6.x, then I can set all three ranges up in the DHCP server and it will know to assign a client connecting to x.x.4.x with an x.x.4.x IP? I didn't see that explained in the manual anywhere.

On DHCP AutoAuto you simply have dynamic ranges for any user that does not get an IP assigned by radius. You decide which ones get static assignment by the entry in the radius database. If there is no radius entry then it gets dynamic.OK good. That'll work then. I don't see this in the manual anywhere. Plus, I was under the impression that Radius didn't work with Atheros AP Cards.

BTW, my network DOS have each AP Card on it's own Subnet. If you'd like to see my network design, I'd be very pleased to provide it for discussion and comment. I would also be very pleased to explain how wrong I used to do it, so that others can hopefully see themselves in me and learn from my mistakes BEFORE they make the sames ones. If you want, I can post my network info..

[lonnie]

I don't have a problem with people asking questions, but when someone has been in the business for a long time and I have gone as far as to post a very excellent DHCP book (in the library topic) I expect that they have read that book or rather books. Don't be expecting me to condense the books and put them in the form of chapter in a manual for you.

I have repeatedly said that if you have any thoughts on using DHCP you MUST get that book. It is written by the ISC DHCP authors and thus is totally relevant. It is the Bible, as it were, for DHCP.

I'm sorry to come down on you but I have tried to be nice and suggest what you (and others who have not read the book) should do; so my approach is now a bit more forceful. I am here to help but I can only point you in the right direction. It is then up to you. This thread is a good starting point.

I guess one of the things I am trying to accomplish is a awakening or at least get guys to recognize that it takes knowledge to be an ISP. The old days of simply get started and connecting customers is over.

The large Telcos and cable companies are coming into our turf and unless we (or rather you) mobilize and start doing things properly, you are finished. They understand networking and they do it right. They also have access to nearly unlimited and free bandwidth. If you try and compete with them and they have you beat on both counts you have no chance. If you at least build proper networks you have some reliability and then you have a fighting chance. But if you spend your days tracking network issues because you have no control and are bridged, then you're already beat and you should be looking for another career.

If you consider yourself to be an ISP or you want to be an ISP, your first duty to yourself and your customers is to obtain the books I have recommended and at least skim through them. They are expensive books, so maybe get them from your Library first and if you feel they are helpful, then order them from Amazon or Chapters.

[lonnie]

DHCP AutoAuth has nothing to do with Atheros, Orinoco or Prism cards. It is simply DHCP, and it is designed to interact with a radius server to obtain a static IP. It is not in the manual and it has been explained in the Forums.

We would all be very pleased to see your new network design.

Again, I am sorry to seem to be picking on you. I don't want to scare you away, but I also don't want to have to take the heat because you did not see something in the manual. That is too easy for you, and not fair to me.

I either write a manual on this stuff or I answer email and Support Forum posts. Sorry, but I don't have time to do both and I doubt if people want no email support because i am writing a manual.
So, what you're saying is that if I have 3 AP Cards that are 192.168.4.x, 192.168.5.x and 192.168.6.x, then I can set all three ranges up in the DHCP server and it will know to assign a client connecting to x.x.4.x with an x.x.4.x IP? I didn't see that explained in the manual anywhere.


OK good. That'll work then. I don't see this in the manual anywhere. Plus, I was under the impression that Radius didn't work with Atheros AP Cards.

BTW, my network DOS have each AP Card on it's own Subnet. If you'd like to see my network design, I'd be very pleased to provide it for discussion and comment. I would also be very pleased to explain how wrong I used to do it, so that others can hopefully see themselves in me and learn from my mistakes BEFORE they make the sames ones. If you want, I can post my network info..

[ninedd]

It is not in the manual and it has been explained in the Forums.Well, for me, the lack of documentation is a pet peve for sure, because I do like to read and learn before hand. If I get testy with you, that's why. Frankly, IMHO, professional products need professional documentation. I've been close to going on my own tirade in your direction about that a few times, but I don't do tirades. :)
We would all be very pleased to see your new network design.Good to hear. Maybe I'm way off base, but I'm pretty sure there are STILL LOTS of guys out there that STILL have flat/bridged networks that are still limping along OK (even though collapse is impending) and since many people take a 'not broke, don't fix' attitude, they keep on going like that. I FULLY AGREE WITH YOU LONNIE, they need to fix this BEFORE it collapses, and that's what I'm trying to help you to accomplish here. You asked for comments, and it was clear to me from messages from others in this thread - they were frankly turned off by the combativness. They were scared off, or pissed off, or... just plain off, because that was their last posting. I wanted to participate and get the discussion back on a more informative and less evangalestic flavour. I'm willing to 'put myself out there' and would be pleased to show the changes in my network for others to learn from, criticize, discuss, aplaud, etc..

For those that are still doing it wrong, we can tell them how we fixed those things. People are scared to change, and if I can help you to help them get it right - good deal. In the progess, I expect to learn how to do the other things that I'm still not doing right, and as I fix each level, I can also help others make those same steps. That can only happen if people are all willing to discuss it without getting so passionate.
Again, I am sorry to seem to be picking on you. I don't want to scare you away, but I also don't want to have to take the heat because you did not see something in the manual. That is too easy for you, and not fair to me.I'm a big boy and I'm a pretty capable guy. Don't be worried about scarring me. You piss me off, but you don't scare me. (LOL) I'm more concerned for the community as a whole that people might back off and choose not to ask the questions that they really should be asking.

When I kept saying, ''I didn't see that explained in the manual anywhere", I was being sarcastic. :) I have read the manual and I knew what was in there and what wasn't. Like I said, your documentation is a pet peve of mine for sure. I don't expec the manual to be a full instructional course, but the words 'auto-auth' don't even exist. I know what DHCP does, and you are correct - it would be unfair for me to expect you to teach everyone basic concepts. However, when there are features in the software - menu items in the menus - that aren't even mentioned in the manual.... there's got to be a middle ground there somewhere. I either write a manual on this stuff or I answer email and Support Forum posts. Sorry, but I don't have time to do both and I doubt if people want no email support because i am writing a manual.Well, if I wanted to go on a tirade... "You either have time to write it correctly once, or you have time to write it over and over again in the forums. How can you seriously call yourself a software company, yet have no concept about the basics of writting documentation? That would be like an automotive mechanic who has no concept of how the combustion engine works." But, as I said, I don't do tirade's, so I won't say that. LOL :)

But seriously folks, having bits and pieces of info spread all over the forums is one thing - having a concise and up to date manual is another. I frankly do think that if you add up all the times you've tried to explain and re-explain the same things over and over in the forums, it could be a time savings to be able to say "RTFM" a few times. :)

I believe that the best way to nip these issues in the bud are to have a ''Valemount Approved Network Design'' that anyone can follow. Not just routing design, that's relatively easy and straignt forward. However, there are many concepts that come to play with StarOS or with Wireless in general that aren't an issue in Wired networks, so it's not truly enough to just send people to Cisco's books, as excellent as they are. That doesn't necessarily explain how to do a StarOS Wireless network and how to configure it's services. Again, I don't expect you to spoon feed those who don't care to understand squat, but rather to show a logical step by step StarOS setup and layout and design philosiphy that people can embrace and then choose to learn. That's got to be a win-win situation.

In any case, what I'll do is this. I'll take some time and write down an explanation of how our Flat Bridged network was broken, what symptoms we were seeing, and how we fixed that and then others can learn from all that which will help all of us out. :^)

[lonnie]

Thanks. I'll back off with the combativeness. Guess I've taken one too many calls from guys who want me to be their saviour because they did not wish to use Google or Search in the Forums. I appreciate your efforts and will help where I can.

After we did the first manual I tried to get others to do the job, as documented in the Forums. It just does not seem to be something that people want to do. I had paid a lot of money and equipment to get it to the stage it is now at. I guess we should not simply quit. I will continue with the updating and at least then I can say RTFM.

[ninedd]

Well, I'd be willing to help with the manual. I'm sure we could work something out. I seem to be, how would one say.... 'wordy', sometimes, but I've also been told I have a good way of explaining things.

Of course, the key is that I need to totally understand the features first, so that's what I've got to work towards. :)

[rafamous]

Here’s my story. I was building websites for this guy. He bought a wireless network with 300 customers. He partnered with some guy who “knew the business”. NOT. We got rid of him and after working like a mad man, doing the work that 3 full time employees did previously. I'm not boasting just eveyone else walked away. What would these customers do? Many where going to school online. I couldn't give up. I now own the business. We lost over 100 customers and realized why the original company bailed when they did. It appears, in this forum, and in reality, that a “bridged/static IP on every computer network” is surviving up to this level and then it’s Freddy Kruger on Steroids. I knew next to nothing about networking and am still trying to grab the rope before I sink. Luckily one of the guys with the original company is some wizard and he’s willing to help from time to time, some what. I would love to hear your story about how you changed a bridged network into one that is set up correctly for stability, continued growth, and speed. I have my notepad, tape recorder and brain in gear. Please expound.

Also Lonnie, I would be willing to pay a subscription fee for something like a 1, 2, 3 process for “How To Make Your StarOS/ WAR System Buzz Like a Bee”. Then maybe the manual could come from your post in that area. I know you’re a busy man.

I have bought your recommendation OSPF Network Design Solutions, Second Edition by Thomas M Thomas II. What language is that written in again?

I like searching through the forums. It’s kind of like a treasure hunt. Sometimes I find something sometimes I don’t. Though a “How to” area would be wonderfully delicious. I stay up many nights trying to get this through my skull. Take this piece over here and google it with that over there. Spend $125 an hour to talk with that dude. Still progress is slow and new customers are constantly wanting on the train and current customers wonder why the train keeps slowing down or stopping.

IMHO, You have something here Lonnie. You can teach a bunch of students exactly how to use YOUR equipment. Otherwise those potential customers will go buy a dumb bridge because yes they may be lazy or they just might not know how to work the good stuff.

Pencil in hand.

[go.fast]

Where are you located?
And who do you pay the 125.00 per hour to?
George

[rafamous]

Where are you located?
And who do you pay the 125.00 per hour to?
George

I live in Illinois.

I pay this to the guy who was one of the creatures who created the monster. He now works for a consulting firm. That's what they charge for me to yack in his hear. Now I'm realizing he would be the guy to stay away from. I try to get him thinking toward helping me route from hop to hop and he can't understand why I would want to do that. He just says yeah you probably have a bunch of tcp overhead but it shouldn't affect that much. He says ARP is real good a tracking where things need to go.

Yeah it's working with 200 customers but the cracks are showing. I want thousands of customers with huge bandwidth. I want to be ready for IPTV and things like that. I want the customer to never have to think about their internet connection. I want their mind on yahoo videos, games and other content. The only time I want the customer thinking about me is when they sign that check.

Why do you ask?

[rafamous]

I guess a specific answer I am looking for is this:

I have figured out how to set up a StarOS Client to work as a bridge much like I did previously with the Tranzeo 200’s, maybe.

After getting my wireless card configured to link to the AP.
I put my 192.168.XX.19 in the wireless card for management.
I put a number 1 down in the Ethernet Bridge option
Then I go to the Ethernet setting and put a number 1 in that Ethernet Bridge option.
Then I put my full static IP and DNS in the router/ computer and I’m up and going just like I did with Tranzeo.
I also put a static default route of 206.222.XX.1 in the StarOS box. I don’t know if that’s needed or not.

Is it possible to set this up and hand DHCP to the client, thus eliminating the router or any type of customer hands on config? Will the StarOS Client hand out the DHCP? Can I put the static into the client radio and hand out DHCP from there? This has to be a step in the right direction. I’m pretty sure this topic has been covered a few times and I will take the bloody thrashing my pea brain deserves for not being able to see the light. This is Frequently Asked Questions right? But if there’s any wizards that drink 7UP instead of Jolt who would be willing to do a step by step set up like I did above. It would allow me to begin using the StarOS for client radios. Yes I will eventually use the WAR boards but I have so many wraps and Soekris boards I have to use them.

Yes. I did spend about four hours going back and forth between the forums and my radio trying to get the set up to work as mentioned. No go.

I’m not looking at this as technical support, just as a bunch of wireless guys sitting around trading tips. No one is obligated or pressured to answer in any way. It’s cool. It’s all good.

[go.fast]

I was just curious thats all, As a wisp I would have a hard time justifying paying 125.00 per hour.

I bet if you asked around these boards you could possibly get a more reasonable rate.
I understand that you have no experience and are trying to hold this network together. Tough situation having to outsource your technical knowledge.

Guess what you should try to do if you haven't already is map out your network completely, down to every detail possible , everything regardless of how insuignificant as you think any details may be.

Then seeing you will be facing an uphill battle, you should find another wisp and partner with them if you can, so that you don't have to worry about the future as much.

All you need to happen is loose your connectivity for more than 24 hours and you will see another 100 subs lost.

It really takes time to get up to speed. Maybe a couple years to get a reasonable amount of knowledge to sleep comfortably at night.

Remember internt is the lifeline foe so many people, it's more important that they are online than if their cell phones work or not. Downtime is BAD

One thing you do have in your favor is that you have a star-os system.
Even better if you have star-os on wrap boards at the client.

Good luck and don't be afraid to ask anything on this board. If it sounds stupid ask anyways, most peole here are graciuos enough to help you if they can.
It's hard to offer help when so little detail is known about your network.

Also consider joining some various industry email support discussion list.

Here is a couple:
WISPA, Wireless Internet Service Providers Association.
Consider becoming a paid member if you decide to stay in the business, the email list is free.

http://lists.wispa.org/mailman/listinfo/wireless

ISP-Planet.com , Jupitermedia Corp.
To Join: mailto:join-isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com (join-isp-wireless@isp-wireless.com)

Part-15.org
The PART-15.ORG WISP Discussion List
To Join: mailto:imailsrv@part-15.org (imailsrv@part-15.org) (in the body type subscribe wisp <yournickname>

Hope this helps and good luck

George

[rafamous]

George,

Thanks for the help. I have now joined the list. I am now using Visio to map out every detail of my network. I have been running it now for over a year and half with very limited networking knowledge. Things have really balanced out 100% better now that I have StarOS pretty much in every pop. Looking to get it on the client side soon.

Keep the faith. All things are possible to those who believe.

[performancewifi]

i am finding this discussion very interesting and informative, but where does a new guy get the the material ( "a few hours of reading" ) to properly learn what you are talking about?

i am just starting out and using staros v2.10. I am using mono wall to dhcp the clients thru the staros radio. By using deny I simply go in and allow thier mac addr and presto.

I will be the first to admitt, that I do not understand much of staros but want to learn badly. is there any documentation out there? And if so, where?

My current project is, expanding my network. I am having trouble configuring v2.10 with two atheros cards, connot seem to link the two radios. any config help would be greatly appreciated.

many thanks,
bob

[vjencic]

You can download manual at http://files.star-os.com/get.php?f=StnServerPrelim.pdf .There you can lear some basic things, but you must read this forum to learn more about staros and wireless.Also you have WIKI at http://staros.tog.net/wiki/Main_Page

[sligbot]

I'd suggest using one board as you are doing and another for testing and development. StarOS is a very powerful software platform which has the ability aggressively advance your network fast. Set a goal to learn how to do a specific task with the software and search the archives as to how to achieve that goal. Do that over and over again until you start to feel comfortable with your knowledge of it. There's a lot of memorizing and a lot of concepts that need to be understood but minimize the things that you want/need to learn and it should come easy. There are also a couple good Cisco books out there but they may be difficult to associate with especially if you're not familiar with a lot of the processes and concepts.
Also, depending on your knowledge, try reading up using a simple resource like "how stuff works", the StarOS wiki and a host of other resources available.
Good luck!
Rich

[DrLove73]

My current project is, expanding my network. I am having trouble configuring v2.10 with two atheros cards, connot seem to link the two radios. any config help would be greatly appreciated.


If you want help, you must give us details about what your trying to do.

From quote above, someone could conclude that you have 2 atheros cards in one PC/WRAP/WAR, and are trying to connect them together. So, give us specs, and you will receive an answer.

[performancewifi]

Thank all of you for your interest in my problem.

I have just recently began starting a wisp using an older x86 pc with staros station server 2.01.1 that i purchased. It is hiding behind a monowall pc that is also serving dhcp. The radio has 1 orinoco pcmcia card, connected to 1/2w amp and 15dbi antenna. the only problem with this is at my location I only have a 30' tower, and there are alot af trees and dense housing. so, coverage is not good.

To remedy this I want to rent tower space nearby (1-2 miles), and connect with another x86 pc with v2.10 that I have built and redespirse it off that tower. This machine has the 2 artheros cards, one hooked to a parobolic 24dbi antenna, and the other has 1 watt amp and 15 dbi omni.

My problem is in the configuration of this second radio. All thou I did finally did get it to link to the first radio, now I am having problems getting routed thru the second radio to the output or client side.

If I get thru put, will dhcp flow thru as well? Or should I have the second radio service dhcp?

So sorry if I am rambling. I hope I am not making this difficult to follow.

I am a beginer, but did spend most of the day yesterday reading what I could find at the links vjencic directed me to. Thank You. I am not afraid to do the work and reading, and learn, I am just new. Any help configuring this, or advise would be greatly appreciated.

Bob

[tog]

You'll need to run the DHCP server on the system that the clients connect to.

You should use Atheros instead of Orinoco. You shouldn't start yourself out using ancient technology when the current stuff costs so little. Your backhaul from your 30 foot tower over to the real tower should be atheros 5GHz if you can get decent line of sight.

And you should start getting used to putting your systems in weatherproof enclosures outside up on the tower powered by power over ethernet using no amplifier. WRAP and WAR boards are good for this purpose. I usually put my access point WAR boards inside small grey NEMA boxes that I paint white with "Koolseal" (to keep the sun from heating the box up) and drill the holes that I need for cat5 cable entry and antenna pigtails.

Having your system and radios up near the antennas provides the best overall performance and signal strength. Your radio signal going through a long cable down the tower sucks and amplifiers suck. If possible, you may really want to get modern and use WAR boards and cloaking for your new site.

The best current practice to setup a tower that you expect to really put a good number of clients on is to setup a WAR4 with some CM9s for 5GHz or WLM54G cards for 2.4GHz with some sector panels, even if theyre 120 degree they're still way better than an omnidirectional antenna. 2x cloaking will give you good performance out of every AP and allow you to fit all the 2.4GHz gracefully on the same tower.

[calidadwireless]

Learning IP and Masking is very crutial when designing a wireless network. if you used static ip it is abit pain staking and also when offering support to clients they will quickly get fustrated at certain things. Also when considering doing DHCP you have to take into consideration that you have less control of who authenticate onto your network or who doesn't. In some case you might find and un-indentified computer just locks an IP address and just not using your network.This also depends on the type of authentication.

Few tips:

1. If you going to use WEP onto your AP's it limits the ability to profermance of the AP. This should only be considered if you have offering wireless to a smaller amount of clients.

2. Know you AP pros and cons. Many people expect AP's to do mericles but it is the opposite if you don't do your home work.

3. Try to limit the features on AP as much as you can, used other core protection device which is so common on the market to do the job.

I uses a AP11-2 AP great piece of AP so many features but i just used the what is necessary. I used a gateway to do all my IP masking, Linux ofcoruse! then i used software to probe my network so i can know what going on generally on my network. I can have first hand information of whats going on at clients end before they know it.

I did something everyone think is so ridiculious with a bunch of equipments becasue we have over 35,000 clients to deal with. However i am still looking for an equipment which can authenticate a few thousands of client at the same time.

[DrLove73]

Sorry to bring it up, but this thread is 10 months old :-D

RADIUS server can authenticate as many clients as you wish, and when working with StarV3 AP's (1.3.x version) it can do ACL (association to AP) as well.