View Full Version : Agere Ruby chipset
TheBarron
11-01-2002, 02:37 PM
I talked to Tony on the phone today about the new Ruby chipset, but I thought I'd post here to verify our conversation as well as for the benefit of others.
I guess the chipset in the Lucent/Avaya/Agere cards is/used to be "Hermes". And as I understand it, this is the chipset with which the distance and/or throughput protocol extensions work (StarLink and StarBOOST). Seems Agere is trying to move to a lower cost chipset called "Ruby." As I understand my conversation with Tony today, they (Tony & Lonnie & team) haven't tested this chipset/card yet, but have been assured by Agere that it is functionally identical.
So, I can go to wirelesscentral.net and order some of these cards: Agere PC Card 802.11b Client w/128 bit Encryption, for $49 each and buy myself StarOS and all the protocol extensions and everything else should work perfectly.
Right? :)
ps- Big thanks to Tony for the time he spent on the WISPA irc server in the past. Unfortunately, we had some technical difficulties and now we hide on irc2.wispa.org, and don't have much traffic. And after today, I can tell you that Tony is as helpful on the phone as on IRC!
TheBarron
I talked to Tony on the phone today about the new Ruby chipset, but I thought I'd post here to verify our conversation as well as for the benefit of others.
I guess the chipset in the Lucent/Avaya/Agere cards is/used to be "Hermes". And as I understand it, this is the chipset with which the distance and/or throughput protocol extensions work (StarLink and StarBOOST). Seems Agere is trying to move to a lower cost chipset called "Ruby." As I understand my conversation with Tony today, they (Tony & Lonnie & team) haven't tested this chipset/card yet, but have been assured by Agere that it is functionally identical.
So, I can go to wirelesscentral.net and order some of these cards: Agere PC Card 802.11b Client w/128 bit Encryption, for $49 each and buy myself StarOS and all the protocol extensions and everything else should work perfectly.
Right? :)
ps- Big thanks to Tony for the time he spent on the WISPA irc server in the past. Unfortunately, we had some technical difficulties and now we hide on irc2.wispa.org, and don't have much traffic. And after today, I can tell you that Tony is as helpful on the phone as on IRC!
TheBarron
One can sure hope! As of yet we have not had the liberty of trying one out in person, though they are reported to be interchangeable with the original version. If anybody can report any success stories (or lack there of), we would be very pleased.
Thanks!
lonnie
11-01-2002, 04:41 PM
A buddy, kishvet is sending us a Ruby card for testing. We'll know soon enough. FedEx still has the package.
TheBarron
11-01-2002, 04:56 PM
Awesome. I'll hold off a few days on purchases in anxious expectation of your results!
btw- I'm continually impressed with you guys in almost every aspect. Not only keep up the good work, but.. stay the good people you are! :)
TheBarron
bobbyc
11-01-2002, 06:21 PM
We ordered 10 from YDI yesterday, and the sys-adm and i are getting our star-OS machines up and running this weekend. SO by midweek hopefully we'll receive the Ruby cards.
They're cheaper than orinoco silver cards, 128 bit WEP (not that WEP is important). Hopefully they perform good.
Bob C
lonnie
11-01-2002, 09:14 PM
Tracking info indicates I will get the card on Monday. We'll know soon enough. We are hoping it is "no extra code required".
We got our new YDI Sapphire card today (Ruby based) and am pleased to say it works very well and requires no driver modifications. Our current release will not recognize the card because of it's new device ID, but the next release will support it.
Thanks!
TheBarron
11-04-2002, 09:02 PM
Sweet..
So my only remaining questions are if it works -identically-.
For example, is the link quality and throughput and everything else the same? Is it all the same on your long link? (What is it now, 32 miles?)
Oh, also I'm assuming ALL of your protocol extensions worked with it, as well?
Sweet..
So my only remaining questions are if it works -identically-.
For example, is the link quality and throughput and everything else the same? Is it all the same on your long link? (What is it now, 32 miles?)
Oh, also I'm assuming ALL of your protocol extensions worked with it, as well?
Local tests show it to have very good throughput (~640KB/sec) while acting as an AP. Our distance code is compatible with the card and should produce the same, or better results as the existing Hermes cards.
The card also has 128Bit WEP which has yet to be tested, and will be supported in the next release.
Thanks
TheBarron
11-05-2002, 08:06 AM
Cool.
Do the protocol extensions you implemented for increased throughput (is that what you're calling StarBoost?) not work in AP mode? And if not, what sort of throughput are you getting with those extensions enabled.. in whatever mode they work? (with the Ruby card as opposed to the Hermes)
I hate to beat a dead horse here.. just trying to be sure on the details.
Cool.
Do the protocol extensions you implemented for increased throughput (is that what you're calling StarBoost?) not work in AP mode? And if not, what sort of throughput are you getting with those extensions enabled.. in whatever mode they work? (with the Ruby card as opposed to the Hermes)
I hate to beat a dead horse here.. just trying to be sure on the details.
I would consider them the same performance as the originals, except at a very good price, and with 128Bit WEP. The specs are are almost identical to the regular Lucents, with the exception of a -83 dBm sensitivity @ 11Mbit, compared to -82 dBm @ 11Mbit. The tx power is 15 dBm which is the same as the YDI Diamonds. (All this is available in YDI's product PDFs)
Thanks!
kishvet
11-07-2002, 10:16 PM
Lonnie/Tony,
What day did that card finally show up? Fedex sent me an email saying it was delivered on 10/30. Would you buy these or stay with the Diamond (Gold) cards. I don't expect to receive the card back. Consider it payment for tech support. Thanks alot.
Grant
EA Media
lonnie
11-07-2002, 11:02 PM
Hey, thanks for the card. It is appreciated.
It goes through two other delivery agents to get to us and either or both of them had a slow down. We were just glad it finally showed up and we could test it out.
It is a nice card and we would recommend it. It is probably the future, so get used to it.
bobbyc
11-07-2002, 11:26 PM
man this batch we got from YDI is awkward... out of 10 cards, 5 of them have noise floors around -90. the other 5 are what I'd expect, -99, -98. No other cards inserted in the machine, no other 2.4ghz appliances.
I'm gonna send them back, 8dB of loss just becuase of the cards own produced noise is alot.
Why do you think this is? Production flaw?
Bob C
lonnie
11-07-2002, 11:52 PM
Did you test these at the same time, in the same machine? I would suspect that readings at the bottom are not all that meaningful. How do the "noisy" cards compare in operation to the other ones?
bobbyc
11-08-2002, 09:02 AM
NO, I was only testing one card at a time, putting it in my starOS box and then getting the noise floor reading from my win98se laptop running a silver card and orinoco client manager. The reading was from the test results, test partner's noise floor.
It's interesting, I want to now go to every hilltop and test the noise floor of each card we have in service, and if it is producing it's own noise floor, swap it out. I had never thought of this before till recently. Those customers in the fringe would definetly benefit.
Bob C
georgew
11-08-2002, 01:48 PM
When you are testing cards, be sure you are actually testing them, and not just reading the differences between uncalibrated meters. The meters in the cards are not designed to be accurate, so saying one is noisier than the other because of the cards internal noise measurement may lead to inaccurate assements. If you are measuring noise with another card in another machine, and you see noise, be sure you are looking at the right meter.
Really this sort of testing needs to be done with external lab gear that most people don't have.
The point is the 90db reading from one card may be the same as a 99db reading on another card. It could be it is the two cards internal reference voltage that is the only real difference. The zener diode generating the reference voltage for the meters may vary with different batches. It could be there is no effect other than the meter readings being off.
Do a long distance shot in marginal conditions, and see if you see a meaningful difference in the link quality between the two cards to see if there is really a quality difference.
I say this only because I see large differences in the meters between various cards I have tested. The meters in the cards are nothing more than rough indicators.
George
bobbyc
11-08-2002, 02:21 PM
hmmmm, I never considered that, thanks! I suppose I'll hold onto these cards and so some more testing.
Thanks, Bob C
georgew
11-08-2002, 02:30 PM
Do report your results... if there is a quality problem, we probably all need to hear about it. If not, well we need to hear that too... :)
bobbyc
11-08-2002, 02:47 PM
I have a freebie customer (friend) who gets by on a SNR of about 5-6 on both ends. I set aside one of the Ruby cards in question, so I'll throw that card in the AP when I'm at the tower next week and see what happens to his connection. That's really the only way I can think of testing it, we don't have any fancy toys!
Bob C
georgew
11-09-2002, 02:12 PM
That is exactly the sort of test that tells you more than anything else...
It doesn't matter what any meter says, fancy or otherwise... what matters is, "Does it work?".
bobbyc
11-10-2002, 11:54 AM
I didn't bother doing any extensive testing. I was wrong earlier when I said half the ruby cards had higher noise floor and the other half were fine. They all have the same noise floor as the orinoco silver card... -90ish. Previously, on our hilltops, we cut open the orinoco silver cards, cut out the internal antenna wafers, and wrapped them back up in aluminum tape and grounded it to the computer case which was grounded to the rack which was grounded to the shed which was grounded. This produced a nice noise floor of ~-98.
We can't do this with the ruby card, since the guts of the card are different.
http://sonnet1.sonnet.com/bob/misc/0924_007.jpg
That is a orinoco silver with internal antenna wafers that we cut off.
http://sonnet1.sonnet.com/bob/misc/1110_001.jpg
That's a orinoco silver card with internal antenna cut out and shielded with aluminum tape on the left, a ydi ruby on the top right, and a OEM agere w/out internal antenna on bottom. As you can see, the ruby has a weird antenna, it is holes cut out of the circuit board... no idea how that works, but you can't cut the internal antennas out obviously... so your noise floor is going to be a little higher.
That won't work for us. On the towers we now have OEM cards, and all our customers we cut out the internal antenna wafers.
On a side note, one of our customers shoots through trees and is amped. Before he was getting a SNR of about 4/8 station/partner when we were using the orinoco silver with internals cut out at the AP. Now that we switched to the OEM card, his SNR is 8/15! His noise floor is the same, that improvement is all in signal. Our only conclusion is that the OEM cards lack the circuitry for a internal antenna, so more of the signal is making it to the pigtail? No matter what, I highly reccommend the OEM agere cards for the AP.
I'm returning the ruby cards to YDI this week, except for of course the one I murdered :)
Hope this helps.
Bob C
TheBarron
11-11-2002, 10:12 AM
These antenna-less OEM cards came from YDI, I take it? How much did they cost?
bobbyc
11-11-2002, 10:17 AM
$90
bobbyc
11-11-2002, 04:27 PM
BTW, if someone could verify the increased noise floor on the ruby chipset I'd feel better :roll:
Steve
11-16-2002, 07:12 PM
I was just looking thru the specs on Agere's wireless card and it says the internal antenna is disabled if a plug is inserted into the external antenna connector.
Has anybody verified this? If so, does the same thing apply to Orinoco and Avaya?
Steve
Northcc.net
bobbyc
11-16-2002, 08:00 PM
That's what they say with the previous design, but it's not 100% disabled...
Bob C
georgew
12-27-2002, 11:42 AM
What are the price breaks at YDI?
I have a salesman there that has been after me for months, then I ask him for prices on 4 or 5 things, he says he will get back to me.... and doesn't. I've called him back, and he tells me he is still working on it...
What gives?
What I was wanting to know was what are the prices of things like the OEM cards, the pcmcia to pci adapters, and the mini pci cards. I figure I could order 20 items total per order, but I probably would only want 5 to 10 of each item.
Does it just take a while to get prices from YDI?
How much do I need to order to get better prices?
Thanks!
George
georgew
01-02-2003, 02:10 PM
The sapphire web page at YDI has html specs showing the 11mbit sensitivity at -82dbm, while the PDF spec sheet shows -83dbm.
It is probably optimistic to think the gain is actually any better.
Also, while I was begging for prices out of YDI (since 12/13/02) the web posted price of the sapphire card went from $49 to $69.
They send me email inviting me to order sapphire cards, I ask for bulk pricing the same day, then follow up with a phone call 3 days later... and still I have no bulk pricing, and the single unit price is now $69.
Oh joy!
I may be able to get dell OEM cards for less...
@#%&!*